Editing Talk:Main Page

== Looking good!  :) ==

This is looking really good.  What about a slight change to the Welcome to make the SRP an external link to the forums?

Also, should we spend some time on a slick intro with a nice picture?

: '''This should do for the time being - we need more content'''  [[User:BeBerlin|BeBerlin]] 15:40, 27 September 2008 (UTC) 
: 
: I am not overly happy with the layout and colours, but can take care of that at a later stage. I am currently creating stub pages to encourage users to contribute.
: 
: I will look into the category tree extension, as I would prefer it to output a bulleted list as this is being used throughout the rest of the page.
: 
: Apart from a slick intro with image, we absolutely need a privacy statement, and an about page. I think.

== Awesome job guys.. ==

:I'll try and find an image of the SRP razor, that would be nice on the front page.
:
:Maybe something to more directly show that we have the forums/main site as well.

: Like the one there now or something else? - Lee

== Looking better, still needs... ==

... a hacked version of the category tree extension (which only outputs the pages itself, without their parent categories).

Alternatively, we might look into the portal extension.

[[User:BeBerlin|BeBerlin]] 18:57, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

== Safety ==

The wiki needs both a concise article and a comprehensive article regarding health and safety when working with and using straight razors

: I think this should go into the Disclaimer at the bottom of the page.  Speaking of which, we still don't have a copyright notice, privacy policy or an about page. [[User:BeBerlin|BeBerlin]] 18:55, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

: Some guidelines for stickification in the forum have been submitted to the SRP Legislature touching generalities of copyright, privacy, and Wiki usage.  We will still need what BeBerlin detailed above for the Wiki itself - Lee 24 Dec. 2008 17:20 (UTC)

== Proposition for new layout ([[User:BeBerlin|BeBerlin]] 14:07, 24 December 2008 (UTC)) ==

hoglahoo's done a great job at re-formatting the front page. I really like it.

However, I am less than happy with the presentation of the existing contents. While growing the Wiki, we have not - in my humble opinion - paid enough attention to the category namespace. This has led to redundancies. Also, I believe the Tutorials section should go as a whole.

I would like to propose the following structure. For lack of a better representation of categories, I am using headings. But it should give you the right idea.

While on the topic, I think that a modified version of the categorytree extension (see bottom below) would be helpful for navigation purposes. Something for dwessel?

Since I cannot post in the forum, I would like to suggest that you link to this page in the forum if you believe this feasible.

== Proposed layout for Wiki categorisation  ==

*  Background 
** History of straight shaving
**  Historic shaving tools 
**  Straight razor makers
***  Straight razors in Europe 
***  Straight razors in the US 
***  Straight razors in the rest of the world 

*  Straight razor shaving equipment 
**  Basic equipment 
**  Recommended equipment
**  Extended equipment 

*  Straight razor shaving explained 
**  Preparing your face 
**  Shaving with a straight razor 
***  Basic techniques 
***  Advanced techniques 
**  Treating your face after the shave 

*  Maintaining straight razors 
**  Stropping 
***  Regular strops
***  Pasted strops
**  Honing
***  Basic honing 
***  Advanced honing

*  Repairing or restoring straight razors 
**  Repair 
***  Blade 
***  Scales 
**  Restoration 
***  Blade 
***  Scales

[[User:BeBerlin|BeBerlin]] 10:13, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

== Answer to proposed layout - Lee 24 Dec. 2008 16:48 (UTC) ==
* I agree that the tutorials section should go and that the categories need restructuring.  My concern is that the most oft-asked questions need to be answered with the category structure, the main headings of which should all be located on the main page.  So when a newcomer finds the wiki asking "what do I need to buy to get started" or "my grandfather gave me an old razor, what is it and what do I need to do with it" he or she will be able to easily and quickly find the answers.  What are the most asked questions?  Can someone without any knowledge of straight terminologies or methodologies look at the main categories or at least a short tree of categories and subcategories and find answers to the most common questions?

* Partly because of this I think "history of shaving" should be a subcategory of "straight razors".  I also think "Equipment Needed" should simply include pages of lists rather than subcategories since each tool should be detailed either in straight razors, maintenance, or restoration categories.

* I think a safety disclaimer should appear below every page and both that disclaimer and the main page should link to a more comprehensive safety article.

* I still like these, too: Equipment, Shaving, Regular Maintenance, Repairing & Restoring.  While the above proposed category structure is certainly workable and much better than what is currently in place, I have proposed a slightly different tree in the Wiki forum

== Comments on Lee's comments ([[User:BeBerlin|BeBerlin]] 15:06, 25 December 2008 (UTC)) ==

# My suggestion lacks a "random stuff" category, into which should go the FAQ, and some more generic articles like "What every beginner should know".
# The "What every beginner should know" articles should be re-written, and turned into a tutorial for beginners. This tutorial should reference the relevant articles in the Wiki, thereby gently easing a beginner into working with the Wiki.
# With regards to the proper place for history etc. as commented on by Lee, my rationale was that a potential user would do the following: 1) What is straight shaving? 2) Okay, sounds interesting, what do I need? 3) Okay, I can afford that, how do I do it? 4) Works for me, how do keep my equipment in shape? 5) Dang, I dulled or broke something, now what? Admittedly, "history" may not be the best term for 1). Maybe "General background" would work?
# Safety disclaimers... Personally, I find them humiliating, patronising, and generally ridiculous. I do, however, not come from a land with punitive damages. I agree that a safety bit should be added to the Dislaimers in the footer. I also agree that whereever safety is actually an issue (such as working with spalted wood, where such a warning already exists), a short, prominent warning should be added. I suggest writing a template for that one to make it uniform.

Everything else is open for discussion. I really like your "Other Topics" section in http://www.straightrazorplace.com/forums/srp-wiki/29475-new-category-layout-proposal-s.html#post299415 though.

== Minor Comments on Above Comments & BeBerlin's Proposal ([[User:hoglahoo|Lee]] 05:08, 26 December 2008 (UTC) ==

# Sounds good
# Yep
# How about "Straight Razor Brands & (choose one: Histories/Backgrounds)"?
# Yes, and not only punitive damage, but people who don't always use common sense first...
: Bonus: I like a category title that includes the words "honing" (or hones) and "stropping" (or strops) for easier top level reference for the two most commonly asked about straight razor accessories.  Maybe "Maintenance: Using Hones and Strops" which will include using them to take care of a razor and also will include taking care of the hones and strops, general information about them, etc

: Also, Restoration and Repair are going to dovetail with each article.  They should be combined into one category.  Specific article names should be sufficient differentiation eg. "How to remove minor chips", "Bluing a blade", "Repinning a razor" etc.

== Category names vs. article titles ([[User:BeBerlin]]  08:03, 26 December 2008 (UTC)~) ==

Right, so we're almost there. One last remark: My suggestion was to come up with new categories, and to order them in a meaningful way. When you say ''I like a category title that includes the words "honing" (or hones) and "stropping" (or strops) for easier top level reference for the two most commonly asked about straight razor accessories.'' then that does not necessarily mean we need to change my category names. The name of the category is for sorting purposes only, cf. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Category#Category_considerations

We should also speak with dwessel whether he can turn on the import and export functions while we "move" the existing categories. Alternatively, we forget about their respective histories, and simply delete / create new categories (and their corresponding category pages).
@@ Line 105: / Line 105: @@
 # Safety disclaimers... Personally, I find them humiliating, patronising, and generally ridiculous. I do, however, not come from a land with punitive damages. I agree that a safety bit should be added to the Dislaimers in the footer. I also agree that whereever safety is actually an issue (such as working with spalted wood, where such a warning already exists), a short, prominent warning should be added. I suggest writing a template for that one to make it uniform.
-Everything else is open for discussion. I really like your "Other Topics" section in https://straightrazorpalace.com/srp-wiki/29475-new-category-layout-proposal-s.html#post299415 though.
+Everything else is open for discussion. I really like your "Other Topics" section in http://www.straightrazorplace.com/forums/srp-wiki/29475-new-category-layout-proposal-s.html#post299415 though.
 == Minor Comments on Above Comments & BeBerlin's Proposal ([[User:hoglahoo|Lee]] 05:08, 26 December 2008 (UTC) ==
@@ Line 122: / Line 122: @@
 We should also speak with dwessel whether he can turn on the import and export functions while we "move" the existing categories. Alternatively, we forget about their respective histories, and simply delete / create new categories (and their corresponding category pages).
-== Titles and Restructuring ([[User:hoglahoo|Lee]] 20:57, 26 December 2008 (UTC) ==
-I like the tree.  The Wiki is still fairly small, and very few of the newly uploaded files have been categorized anyway; the existing categories should be scrapped so we can create new categories from scratch in order to avoid confusion (on my part).
-* Update: The tree is planted, although it is not exactly as it should be.  The structure is certainly workable though.  I look forward to repairing my late night errors at some point and completing tagging the SRP help files with category inclusion - [[User:hoglahoo|Lee]] 4:23 pm EST, 27 Dec. '08
-== Those help files... ==
-As discussed last night, I would use a bulk renaming tool to give them a more useful name first. Or find someone with some time on their hands and move the existing files. Either way, the name should already reflect the category or subject matter.
-I wonder if previews for PDF files can be created by the Wiki. I think that would be useful. The main gripe I have with the files is that they do not come with an excerpt / a succinct description. I wonder if pdfthumbs (a tool to generate thumbnail images from PDF files) and Mediawiki's gallery tag might be helpful here. Hmmm...
-: I am unable to rename the uploaded files. Maybe da bomb can be petitioned for such capability.  Previews would be nice - [[User:hoglahoo|Lee 14:31]] CST, 28 Dec. '08
-: Actually I am able to rename the uploaded files by updating them with a newer version - [[User:hoglahoo|Lee 08:14]] CST, 30 Dec. '08
-== Two suggestions related to the Database of razors ==
-Hello gents,
-Fantastic work on the razor DB! I have these two suggestions:
-. change the headline from
-"Help SRP grow its database of straight razors!"
-to
-"Database of Straight Razors - Help Us Grow It!"
-in order to make the term "database of straight razors" more visible in the page.
-. add a link to the database to the Document/Background section, possibly after the bullet of "Straight razor manufacturers" or into the Shaving equipment section. Btw. I think that the Shaving Equipment section deserves a consolidation, IMO razors should be in the first place instead of the current "Additional Equipment".
-Thanks for your patience with me. :)
-=== 15:17, 25 March 2009 (UTC) ===
-: ad 1.: Keep the caps to a minimum, i.e. Straight Razor Data base - help us grow it.
-: ad 2.: We are working on a solution for sorting categories right now. ''Sparq: I fixed sorting of the Equipment category.''
-== New Lather category under Straight_Razor_Shaving ==
-I added a new category "Lather", put it under Straight_Razor_Shaving and moved the three illustrated lather making guides to it. It did not make much sense to me to have them under Recommended_Equipment.